Is this a cultural thing too?

[fluffyllama]

I'd never heard of 'potato' being used as an offensive word until very recently (see here if you haven't either), so I've no idea how widespread it is either online or anywhere else. Is this a common insult in the US or elsewhere?

The reason I ask is because the same fandom (Teen Wolf, shock) that's quick to jump on its use is the same one where every other fic (this is not an exaggeration) uses 'spaz' or 'spastic' to describe one of the characters. When I first saw it I did some hunting around and saw lots of people claiming 'spaz' is not an offensive word in the US like it is in the UK (seriously, we've been trying to wipe it out for decades), so I try to grit my teeth, but it has to be a really good story to make me continue reading past one of these words, and if I spot a second use I'm out of there. It may be a good thing for my continued enjoyment that I tend to just skim chunks of less than fantastic dialogue, where some of these words may be lurking.

These words were the insult of choice on the playground when I was growing up, and I'm sure I used them myself sometimes because I have two younger brothers. You don't hold back much when they get annoying. Then in my second year at high school we had two girls start in the year below me with cerebral palsy, which is what 'spastic' officially referred to. This was a school you had to pass an exam to get into, by the way, there were no free passes for anyone with a disability. There was nothing stupid about these girls.

One of them had such a hard time with the other girls tormenting her that she moved schools part way through her first year, if I remember correctly after all this time. I only heard that after she left, and I don't know how reliable the info was, but it was the first time I was aware of that level of bullying directed at a single individual. The other girl had more physical problems, both with walking and coordination, and also a lot of difficulty speaking clearly, so I've no doubt she had an even worse time of it. There wasn't any real social mixing between years in school, but she became a good friend of mine later on at college as I went to Art college first so we ended up on some of the same courses. It was probably taking double sets of notes (with carbon paper, when did I last see that, heh) that meant I had good notes and good attendance in lectures we shared, so she did me more favours than I ever did her!

I haven't seen her for a while as I don't get out and about much, but her chosen career involves dealing all day with members of the public. Since we've spent decades trying to get rid of the words, I doubt she hears words like 'spaz' these days in real life, though if there's one thing you can rely on it's for people to be insensitive so I'm sure it's extremely trying. I guarantee she would never, ever complain about the way people treat her, so I doubt anyone even knows. She does, however, spend a lot of time on the internet, so I really, really hope she's not reading Teen Wolf fics. Sigh.


In other news, the puppy has come into season for the first time today, so no puppy school for a few weeks. Awww, she's getting all big now *sniff* (8 months old!) I need to note this down as I always lose my diary / scrap of paper where I write down the dates and it's important info to keep.

Comments

[iamshadow]

Re: the spaz/spastic thing, I had a problem with someone using that in a Sherlock fic written by an American. I was really shocked to see it, and I posted about it on my journal. I will add that I contacted the author, who was very contrite and very quick to edit the fic to remove it.

[fluffyllama]

Oh, I'm really glad you did that. I didn't see your post as this is normally my time to collapse and hibernate after Christmas and I'm usually AWOL from LJ land, but I think I'm doing a bit better this year.

I'd definitely have been even more shocked to see it used for a British fandom like Sherlock, because it just wouldn't happen. But even if the word has lost its roots for most people, it doesn't make it okay, obviously. I suspect the response from the TW fandom will not be great, because it's just so pervasive, but I'm going to mention it in future.

I did a rewatch of the whole series and I didn't spot one use of it in the actual show, so they don't have that excuse either. I thought it was safest to be sure on that one before starting anything!

[iamshadow]

Oh, that post is super old, like eleven months? It happened quite a long time ago. But yeah, given it was about the same word, I thought it might give some context.

I know the author was really upset, not because of my feedback, but because the story had been complete and up for months and no one, not even the UK readers, had commented or emailed to let her know that it was really not a word that the intelligent, socially conscious daughter of a wounded-in-combat, army doctor would use in casual conversation at the dinner table in circa 2030. She would be sent to her room with prejudice the moment she started tossing around ableist language, let alone pejoratives.

[fluffyllama]

Oh yes, I was just working out why I hadn't seen it at the time, as it would have caught my attention, not least because I was reading an awful lot of Sherlock at the time!

And wow, yes, I'm surprised nobody had mentioned it if it had been up for months, and that's quite an obviously inappropriate term for someone like that to use. Though it can be difficult to say so because authors don't always respond well to negative comments, of course. I have difficulty handling confrontation to the point that I get panic attacks in RL around raised voices (even if the anger isn't directed at me) so I think I'll work out something calmly phrased in advance that I can cut and paste to the end of my comments on fics when I see these words in future.

[iamshadow]

Yeah, I hate wank of any kind, so I very, very rarely give any kind of feedback that could be seen as confrontational. I took a day to compose a message to the author, got it proofread by my partner, and sent it to her in a DM, rather than leaving it on a public forum. That way, I wasn't shaming her in public, and wasn't really risking inflaming her fanbase. If she'd bitched back at me, I just would have dropped it, because, to be honest, 99% of the time, people aren't interested in being right. I mean, there's an otherwise good Sherlock fic that has the main characters use baby oil and condoms together, and I commented on that, because I have a sexual health volunteer background, and apart from another commenter speaking up and thanking me for pointing out the flaw, the author completely blanked me, even though it would have been an easy fix. One would think that if they went to the trouble of working in references to safe sex, they'd want to fix a catastrophic flaw like that, given how awkward working in condoms etc into a scene and keeping the tone still hot can be.

[fluffyllama]

Oops, yeah, that's an important flaw, that would throw me right out. My brain derails every time I see someone have a character lube themselves up and then stick a condom over the top of it though, and you'd be surprised how many times I've read that! But I'm sure I've done worse in the pursuit of smut *g*

That's a good idea to save it for contacting authors directly, and to take lots of time to get it right. I can't see a way to send a private message on AO3 though, so I see a lot of journal hunting in my future!

[melannen]

Spaz/spastic is not an okay word in the US, but it sounds like it's become worse in the UK than here. I would say than anyone in the US who knows better than to use "retard" ought to know better than to use "spaz" or "spastic", though. But a lot of people still use retard, so... (Certainly anyone who's getting offended at potato - which afaik is entirely an internet thing - should know better than to use "spaz" lightly, American or not.)

[fluffyllama]

Oh, that's really good to know, thank you! Relying on searches and Wikipedia just isn't good enough sometimes. A kids TV programme over here in the 70s made it (and related, thankfully almost extinct variations) into a hugely popular insult even though it was aiming for the exact opposite effect, so my generation has massive (and completely deserved) guilt over it, I think.